"zaphod beeblebrox" <space at finalfrontier.net> wrote in message
news:uo2i12ej5qm758 at corp.supernews.com...
> Moses' first wife, Zipporah, was a Kenite (a Semitic people). Moses sent
her
> back to her father (Jethro/Reuel) during the forty-year wandering period.
> His second wife was an Ethiopian woman, black as the ace of spades, I
> reckon.
If Moses' wife had been "black as the ace of spades", God would have struck
him dead. Moses didn't get a reprieve from Israelite law, which required
that any children of an Israelite who married a non-Israelite be put away,
or at least unable to enter the congregation of the LORD for ten
generations.
Moses married an Israelite who was a descendant of the Israelite named
Cushi.
> I imagine he loved her because she was sweet-spirited (unlike
> Zipporah), and gentle, and kind, and not ashamed to embrace the Israelite
> religion, including the bloody circumcision. She was probably attractive
> and, God knows, a good dancer.
>> Ruth was not a "resident alien" of Moab--she was a Moabitess, as was her
> sister-in-law.
Had Ruth not been a genetic Israelite, Israelite law would have required the
Israelites to put her away.
Why do you think they would have made an exception for Ruth? And if they did
make an exception for her, which would have altered thousands of case
history to the contrary, where was the dialog with God that would have been
required to make such a huge exception?
> Judah had his children by two Canaanite women--yes, the
> Canaanites that God would later condemn for their wickedness. The
> descendents of Judah are the "Jews," very much Israelites and Hebrews in
> every respect.
Judah had only three sons by the Canaanite woman: Er, Onan, and Shelah.
Two died and the third never had heirs:
Gen 38:7 And Er, Judah's first-born, was wicked in the sight of Jehovah.
And Jehovah slew him.
Gen 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass,
when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground,
lest he should give seed to his brother.
Gen 38:10 And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of Jehovah: and
he slew him also.
Gen 46:12 And the sons of Judah: Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Perez, and
Zerah; but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Perez
were Hezron and Hamul.
Rth 4:18 Now these are the generations of Perez: Perez begat Hezron,
Rth 4:19 and Hezron begat Ram, and Ram begat Amminadab,
Rth 4:20 and Amminadab begat Nahshon, and Nahshon begat Salmon,
Rth 4:21 and Salmon begat Boaz, and Boaz begat Obed,
Rth 4:22 and Obed begat Jesse, and Jesse begat David.
It was Jacob's brother Esau who had heirs by Canaanite women and was put
away from his people, who became the Edomites, who the jews are descendants
of.
Gen 26:34-35 And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the
daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Basemath the daughter of Elon the
Hittite; who were a grief of spirit to Isaac and to Rebekah.
(Gen 28:8) Esau realized how displeasing the Canaanite women were to his
father Isaac,
(Mal 1:3) Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert for
jackals.
(Rom 9:13) As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau."
Descendants of Judah are never referred to as jews in any place in the Holy
Bible, because they were Israelites.
Today's jews CLAIM to be descendants of Esau--but it's only the 2% who are
Sephardic jews who can even make this claim, because the Holy Bible
describes them as being descendants of Jehudi > Cushi > Cush > Ham.
>> Jesus and all the apostles were Israelites. Paul was not technically a Jew
> (tribe of Benjamin), but by his day "Israelite" was synonymous with "Jew"
> because from the resettlement following the Babylonian Captivity period,
the
> country was known as "Judah" and "Judea."
Yes, the country was known as "Judea" [or Judaea], and most of the
Israelites who lived there were known as "Judah", because they were
descendants of Judah, but there were also Israelites of the Tribe of
Benjamin (like Paul), as well as jews who were descendants of Jehudi. The
Holy Bible never confuses Judah with Jehudi. Only jews do. Maybe because
the Talmud does.
Even the Koran confirms that jews are descendants of Jehudi, though, and in
fact the Muslims to this day call jews "Jehudis".
> All of the residents who claimed
> Hebrew descent (with or without genealogical records) were known as Jews.
> Even the Hebrews scattered abroad ("diaspora") were known by this name
> (compare Esther).
No. By both Hebrew and Israelite law, mamzers born of an adulterous
marriage with non-Hebrews or non-Israelites had to be put away. There's no
way that jews could have legally been either. Besides, most jews today
claim to be descendants of Ashkenaz, who was a descendant of Japeth, which
means they could not be Semites [read: descendants of Shem], Hebrews [read:
descendants of Eber], children of Abraham, nor Israelites [read: descendants
of Jacob].
Maybe the Talmud says this, but if it does, it's in direct conflict with the
Holy Bible.
>> The "purity" of the Israelites has not been a primary concern of God at
ANY
> time in the history of the Bible. Certainly not from Adam to Jacob, since
> Jacob (Israel) was the first "Israelite." Ezekiel 16 makes it clear that
> even God was aware that they were a "miscegenated" or mixed breed from the
> beginning.
The language of Ezekiel 16 ("cause Jerusalem to know her abominations")
proves just the opposite, that miscegenating with Canaanites, Amorites, and
Hittites was considered an "abomination". If "The 'purity' of the
Israelites has not been a primary concern", then why would the rest of this
chapter detail what God went through to try to purify the race, complete
with warnings not to sin like this again?
> Jacob married two Syrians (Rachel and Leah), who were Abraham's
> "people." Judah married a Canaanite woman to father his line, and
> subsequently had twins by his Canaanitish daughter-in-law.
A Canaanite was a race. A "Canaanitish woman" is a RESIDENT of Canaan.
H3669
??????
kena?ani^y
ken-ah-an-ee'
Patrial from H3667; a Kenaanite or inhabitant of Kenaan; by implication a
pedlar (the Cananites standing for their neighbors the Ishmaelites, who
conducted mercantile caravans): - Canaanite, merchant, trafficker.
By marrying Abraham's people, God favored Jacob, but by marrying Canaanite
and Hittite women, God "HATED" Esau.
(Mal 1:3) Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
but hated Esau;
Do you know anyone besides Esau who God "hated"? That's fairly strong
language, eh?
> Boaz, Solomon,
> and Rehoboam--as has been noted by others in this incredibly drawn-out and
> convoluted argument--all fathered their main lines by non-Israelite women.
>> The lineage of Jesus is quite human and impure on the human side. And He's
> not ashamed to admit it. The call is to all y'all and all y'all's
> chilluns--whosoever will, bond or free, Jew or Gentile, high-born or
> low-born, red and yellow, black and white--come on down, and drink freely
of
> the water of life.
Disagreed. You WANT Christ's ancestry to be impure, and will go to great
lengths to discredit it, up to and including the claim that Boaz married a
non-Israelite in violation of God's Law and Israelite law, but the fact
remains that a close study of the Holy Bible will prove just the opposite:
"who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the
giving of the law, the service, and the promises; of whom are the fathers,
and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God,
blessed forever. Amen", Romans 9:4-5
"Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel," he said, "Because He has not
forgotten His people but has effected redemption for them", Luke 1:68
He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of
Israel." Matthew 15:24
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go
not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter
ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye
go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 10:5-9
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and said about him, "Behold, an Israelite
indeed, in whom is no deceit!" John 1:47
I ask then, Did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an
Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin, Romans 11:1
>> And drop this childish argument. Please.
>> Web
John Knight
>> "Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab at lojban.org> wrote in message
> news:2d82oug0r17duhgk8ogv4n5o3pg9qbvf28 at 4ax.com...> | "zaphod beeblebrox" <space at finalfrontier.net> wrote:
> | >I invite you all to read Numbers 12. It's a short chapter. You'll enjoy
> it.
> |
> | Very good. The nincompoop can stop at the end of verse 1
> |
> | >And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian
> | > woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
> |
> | Lest their be any doubt of the translation,
> |
> | H3571 (translated as Ethiopian) is
> | >Kuwshiyth None
> | >Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
> | >koo-sheeth' Adjective Feminine
> | >
> | > Definition
> | >a Cushite woman, Moses' wife so-called by Miriam and Aaron
> |
> | Which is the feminine form of Cushi
> |
> | H3569
> | >yXwk patronymically from (03568)
> | >Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
> | >Kuwshiy TWOT - 969a
> | >Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
> | >koo-shee' Adjective
> | >
> | > Definition
> | >Cushi or Ethiopian = see Cushan "their blackness"
> | >one of the descendants of Cush the grandson of Noah through Ham and a
> member of that nation or people
> | >one of Joab's couriers
> | >(TWOT) Ethiopian
> |
> | So not only did Moses marry the daughter of a Kenite, he married a
> | Cushith (female Cushi) (and as the chapter continues, God punished
> | Miriam rather severely merely for criticizing Moses for this action).
> |
> | Clearly, God did not intend by Deuteronomy to forbid that which Moses
> | had done. It seems most unlikely that Moses, the lawgiver, would give
> | a law against what he himself had done, and which God had punished
> | Miriam for criticizing. There thus can be no doubt that Deuteronomy
> | 23:2 is not referring to the children of Moses as bastards, nor did
> | Moses reject all of other races from joining the congregation of the
> | Lord, for in Exodus 18, all of the elders of Israel ate with his
> | father-in-law, the Kenite and Midianite, who was either Ethiopian or
> | married to an Ethiopian, since his daughter was a Cushith, and did so
> | "before God".
> |
> | >[1] When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of
all
> that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD
> had brought Israel out of Egypt;
> | >[2] Then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife,
after
> he had sent her back,
> | >[3] And her two sons; of which the name of the one was Gershom; for he
> said, I have been an alien in a strange land:
> | >[4] And the name of the other was Eliezer; for the God of my father,
said
> he, was mine help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh:
> | >[5] And Jethro, Moses' father in law, came with his sons and his wife
> unto Moses into the wilderness, where he encamped at the mount of God:
> | >[6] And he said unto Moses, I thy father in law Jethro am come unto
thee,
> and thy wife, and her two sons with her.
> | >[7] And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance,
and
> kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into
> the tent.
> | >[8] And Moses told his father in law all that the LORD had done unto
> Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, and all the travail that
had
> come upon them by the way, and how the LORD delivered them.
> | >[9] And Jethro rejoiced for all the goodness which the LORD had done to
> Israel, whom he had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians.
> | >[10] And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out
of
> the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath
> delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
> | >[11] Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the
thing
> wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
> | >[12] And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and
> sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat
> bread with Moses' father in law before God.
> |
> | Now the question remaining is whether and how long it will be before
> | the nincompoop turns white with leprosy. Perhaps he should fall on
> | his knees and beg God for forgiveness of the lies that he has been
> | spreading at the behest of the Prince of Lies.
> |
> | lojbab
>
