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"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote:
>"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab at lojban.org> wrote in message news:jb8gnus9cmm35fh2ok68tb3gim9r9u9q69 at 4ax.com...
>> >You disagree that the Holy Bible uses "ben" to describe immediate
>> > children as well as descendants, right? Your disagreement is based
>> > on your claim that "ben" is interchangeable with "begat", or that
>> > "ben" means son and never descendant, right?
>>
>> It hardly matters, since all patrilineal descendants of the tribe of
>> Benjamin are members of the tribe of Benjamin.
>>
>> >That's wrong.
>>
>> You are wrong.
>>
>> >From H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name),
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Therefore a "ben" of a Benjaminite is a Benjaminite
>>
>
>But the children of a "ben" of a Benjaminite who marries a jew, Moab,
> Edomite, Hittite, Cushite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Jebusite, Hivite,
> Ammonite, Egyptian, Amorite, nigger, spic, Mexican, Indian,
> Girgashite, or any other mud is NOT a Benjaminite
False. The Bible gives specific examples to the contrary.
>--he's a "mamzer", which is a mongrel, and mongrels are not permitted into the congretation of the LORD to the tenth generation:
>
>"A [mamzer] shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to
> his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the
> LORD", Deuteronomy 23:2
Totally ignoring other passages that contradict that one, like the one
a few verses later where it says 3 generations for Moabites and
Egyptians.
Furthermore, since adoption would make someone a member of a tribe,
marrying someone adopted into a tribe, the children would not be
mongrels. Since Jewish conversion is a formal adoption into the
tribes, and not merely a profession of belief, the passage would not
apply to those of other nations who went through the proper rituals.
Finally, what makes YOU an expert on the interpretation of Old
Testament Law? Are you a rabbi? Do you practice the other laws of
Deuteronomy? If you don't, then you are no longer an Israelite, no
matter what your purported ancestry.
Actually, it is a near certainty that the Europeans are not Israelites
under the covenant of Abraham for another reason:
Gen 17:
>[9] And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore,
> thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
>[10] This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and
> thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
>[11] And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall
> be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
>[13] He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy
> money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your
> flesh for an everlasting covenant.
>[14] And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is
> not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> broken my covenant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Since circumcision was not practiced by Europeans who were not Jews of
Moslems, even if they were genetic descendants of Abraham, they were
explicit violators of this covenant and thereby cut off from "his
people" i.e. the covenant chosen of Abraham.
And as for your 6 billion Israelites, have you forgotten Deut 4:
>[24] For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
>[25] When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye
> shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves,
> and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do
> evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:
>[26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye
^^
> shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but
> shall utterly be destroyed.
>[27] And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> you.
Which is reinforced by Deut 31:
>[16] And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy
> fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them,
> and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> them.
>[17] Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that
^^^^^^^^^^^
> they will say in that day. Are not these evils come upon us, because
> our God is not among us?
THAT was the fate of the Israelites of the other 10 tribes. They were
removed from the land, scattered among the nations, and left FEW IN
NUMBER. Thus said Moses in the Bible. Thus said the LORD
Should we believe Moses and the LORD, or a nincompoop?
>> I am far more likely to trust the KJV translators than to trust the
>> nincompoop transmogrifier.
>Of course you are. That's because you're a complete moron who has yet
> to question a single word the STUPID and LYING jews have uttered into
> your ear.
Oh I question a lot of things. YOU most of all.
lojbab