Bob LeChevalier <lojbab at lojban.org> wrote:
>JDay123 at BellSouth.net (Jd) wrote:
>>Bob LeChevalier <lojbab at lojban.org> wrote:
>>>>>But His "choosing" before the formation of the earth was a choosing of
>>>>>ALL of mankind, IMO. He CHOSE to give us free will that we may in
>>>>>turn CHOOSE to worship him.
>>>>>>Then why on God's green earth if all humans have the capacity to
>>>>understand that a Creator did indeed create everything and chose
>>>>everyone before this creation, have 80% (your stats) of all
>>>>Europeans chosen to believe the ToE which is absoultly silent
>>>>concerning God Himself?
>>>>>>Because some people don't confuse believing in God with believing in
>>>the 100% inerrancy of the Bible.
>>>>Then you cannot say with certainty that God did indeed choose "ALL
>>of mankind" if you read that in a Bible which is not 100% accurate.
>>Nothing can be said with certainty. You might be a butterfly dreaming
>you are "Jd" and posting on the Internet. There might be no Bible at
>all, and it might be a figment of your imagination, or you might be a
>figment of mine.
Uncertainty is a law of quantum mechanics devolped by Heisenberg.
Scientists operate within the realm of probabilities and therefore
restrict themselves from certainty.
>If the Bible is true, then I see no basis for a claim of selective
>grace. If the Bible is not true, then it may or may not matter, but I
>choose to have faith anyway.
Faith in something that may not be true? Doubt is deadly in this
day and time just as it was to the Hebrews in the wilderness.
But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that
had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom
sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that
believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of
unbelief. (Hebrews 3:17-19)
Unbelief which comes by doubt and uncertainty may very well be
predicated on the rejection of the existence of truth. Truth also
comes via the spoken word, for if it were not so, Jesus would have
to had written his thoughts down with pen and ink. Instead, he
The Hebrews in the wilderness were preached to as were the folks in
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the
word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in
them that heard it. (Hebrews 4:2)
... which should immediately make anyone interested in truth ask the
question "what is the gospel?" if they previously thought that the
"gospel" is only relevant to NT teachings. Obviously, the element
of certain truth is contained within the phraseology "word preached"
and is not limited to NT theology (or scientific review which is
limited by uncertainties). Otherwise, how could many of the OT
characters have aquired the status of "saints" as is revealed in
both OT and NT scriptures?
Obviously they believed enough of something and that something is
truth. Since the word preached contains truth, it becomes necessary
to understand that the intellect of men can absorb truth by way of
the tunnels which lead from their ears to their brain. Also, since
the intellect is involved it can be reasoned that reinforcement of
truth can come by way of the human eyeballs of men as they read the
>>>>>Of course there have been plenty of evangelists who seem to have been
>>>>>speaking of God in order to access the till of donations.
>>>>Well, you could say the same for "scientists" i.e. they are only
>>>>spreading rumors so they can get more and bigger research dollars
>>>>from Uncle Sam via the tax payers.
>>>>>If you don't like it, make sure you never use any modern medicine, or
>>>a computer, or anything else which would probably not exist without
>>>those Uncle Sam Research dollars.
>>>>Well if you don't like evangelists, you don't think the Bible is
>>I didn't say that, but it is correct.
Are you certain?
>>and you think men were once apes
>>I didn't say that, and it is NOT what I believe.
>>which sprang from mud
>>I didn't say that, and it is not what I believe.
>>>maybe you should swallow copious amounts of pills of every sort
>>before your feet hit the floor every morning and patiently wait for
>>me to fire up my computer and send you some truth.
>>I have no particular reason to believe that you have any "truth".
Hmmm... let's see. I'll bet that's one thing you're certain about,