Ian Goddard wrote in message <3d3626ae.356993760 at news.erols.com>...
>On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:56:17 -0500, <johnkusch at charter.net> wrote:
>>>> "Our study shows, for the first time, that social cooperation is
>>> intrinsically rewarding to the human brain, even in the face of
>>> pressures to the contrary," said Gregory S. Berns, M.D., Ph.D.,
>>> co-investigator and associate professor of psychiatry in the Emory
>>> University School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry and
>>> Behavioral Sciences and member of the CBN. "It suggests that the
>>> altruistic drive to cooperate is biologically embedded-- either
>>> genetically programmed or acquired through socialization during
>>> childhood and adolescence."
>>>>This statement is made from the common, flawed perspective that altruism
>>exists and that cooperation is not in the individual's best interest.
It's
>>fascinating to see that, in humans, cooperation is rewarding on a
>>physiologic basis, but this does not prove that true altruism even exists.
>>Survival of the species is in the interest of the individual.
>>> IAN: Seems to me that the authors of the study misuse the
> term "altruism," as when they say "the altruistic drive
> to cooperate." Virtually all noncoercive activity in a
> free market involves cooperation (people agreeing to work
> together toward some goal), and thus is cooperative. Yet
> virtually none of that activity is necessarily altruistic.
>> The American Heritage dictionary give us this: "Altruism :
> Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness."
> I tend to agree with the nonexistence of altruism but from
> the view that when people do care for others, it comes not
> from an denial of self, but an expanded definition of self.
> In that respect, "self" is the central focus of all action.
let's see, first, i don't see it as an 'earthshaking' Q., but i do see
"altruism" as having existence.
and i see it as transcendant stuff, born in experience.
the potential is in-there, innately, but whether or not it's manifested
derives in experience that enables one to 'see' that this or that, with
respect to another, is the Same-Stuff that's negatively-impacted their own
existence, and, so, having gained the necessary insight, through experience,
one performs work on behalf of the other, in order that the other be spared
the 'negative' stuff.
NDT's view of the mechanism for such is discussed in AoK, Ap7.
in my own case, though, there is some 'selfishness' in-there. i want to be
able to 'hold-my-head-up', but, really, when the demands of it get-Brutal,
one just doesn't 'give a damn' about the "inclination-of-one's-head".
at such 'times' it's all just a Savage struggle, and i'm going to make it to
that Child 'come hell or high-water'.
there's an activation of inverting biological reward, inherent, during these
'times' when one is working 'in mid-air', and this inverting biological
reward surely has a lot to do with making it possible. it provides a
temporary 'foundation' - something to 'hold-on-to' - even in the midst of
being 'in mid-air', but, in and of itself, the inverting biological reward
is insufficient be-cause the Thermodynamics, inherent, are =expensive=.
it's very-much a Life-or-Death thing that's bigger than my own Life. it's
like i "can't Live" if that Child can't Live, so, in order to Live, i work
on the Child's behalf.
there's some selfishness in-there, i admit, with respect to my own
being-able-to-Live.
yeah, i'd like to not have to 'worry' about being able to feed and shelter
myself. but i've not been able to find a way to earn a living through my
research, and i'm going to keep-on with it, anyway, while Life remains in-me
(looks like, without the archives i've kept. "oh well.' i've fond memories
of when i could carry everything i needed in my Midshipman's laundry bag,
the loss of the archives would be a =LOSS=, but maybe i'll get back to being
sufficient in my laundry bag :-)
i think the underpinning Rational is probably 'invisible' to folks who've
not lived the progenitor stuff.
it's one of the reasons it's 'hard' - one 'seems crazy' to folks with
respect to whom the progenitor stuff is 'invisible' :-)
"oh well."
anyway, perhaps you can imagine... it's not stuff i enjoy probing too
deeply. have to [and wnat to] just do it, regardless, so it's one of the
things that i've left at the 'level' it's presented at in Aok, Ap7, which is
sufficient [there's nothing un-accounted-for. folks can 'spin' it ad
infinitum, but the same can be done with anything 'psychological'. pinning
it down in terms of energy-consumption pretty-much Pinns-if-Down.
a "meta-motor-dominant" ["meta-active] information-processing 'state'.
ken [k. p. collins]
>> Ian Goddard : http://users.erols.com/igoddard>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
> Those who deny individual rights cannot claim
> to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand
>>
