Kim wrote in message ...
>"Kenneth Collins" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>news:AAbT8.66991$UT.4611034 at bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>>> anyway, the main thing i'm doing in this thread is just working to get
>> the 'point' across that =nothing= in molecular dynamics is
>> disconnected from the neural-activation dynamics that're driven
>> 'experientially'.
>>>> to the degree that they do so, all experiments that treat molecular
>> stuff as being some sort of self-containing-code produce False
>> results.
>>>> this's =not= saying the data they produce isn't Valuable. it is.
>>>> it's just that the data is 'disconnected' from reality in a way that
>> 'steers' folks away from being able to understand nervous system
>> function.
>>>> it's like Functional Neuroanatomy before NDT's explication of
>> "decussation' - all 'disconnected', and subject to widely-varying
>> false hypotheses.
>>>> i understand that this stuff must seem 'offensive', but that's only
>> be-cause it's unfamiliar [even though i've been discussing it, in one
>> form or another, since the early 1990s.]
>>>> consider it until you get a 'handle' on it, and you'll see that it's
>> an extraordinarily-useful organizing principle because it rigorously
>> couples everything physically-internal with everything
>> physically-external. one thing permeates everything: the one-way flow
>> of energy from order to disorder that is what's described by 2nd
>> Thermo [WDB2T].
>>>> what this stuff does is lift the molecular stuff up from consisting of
>> a bunch of abstract-ruleset stuff to being physically-coupled with
>> external physical reality.
>>>> once you See-it, you'll be able to make predictions re. the molecular
>> stuff, do the experiments, and voila!
>>>> eliminates a lot of the 'hunting-and-pecking',
>> 'throwing-stuff-up-in-the-air-to-see-how-they-land, stuff.
>>>> still, i understand that this stuff is, initially, 'offensive'.
>>>> i mean no 'offense'.
>>>> just the opposite.
>>>> ken [k. p. collins]
>>>>>>I don't fully understand what it is that you are saying but I get the idea
>that you think that plaques are a result of neural dynamics that've
>'broken-down' elsewhere perhaps as a result of old-age through too much
>neural stimulation in a lifetime? Therefore using your neuronal networks
>too much stresses the cell which alters DNA/RNA which goes onto switch to
>beta-amyloid production and hence alzheimer's? which would explain partly
>why it is seen only in old age (Except with genetic mutations.).
Dear Kim, thank you for your thought-filled reply.
in the perspective in which i'm working, such over-stress could be a
progenitor, but, except in extreme instances, such is unlikely because there
are strong TD E/I-minimization mechanisms, innate within the nervous system,
which guard against such. [could be, though, that Alzheimer's =all=
sufferers have experienced some =extreme= trauma. [of course, what's being
'extreme' having substantial genetic variability, and, therefore,
connectedness. i'd not considered this possibility. have to explore it. if
it turns out to be correct, as far as i'm concerned, Kim, you are it's
Pogenitor.]
there are two main possibilities that i, presently, see as remaining:
1. instances of relatively well-focussed neural degeneration [subsequent to
stroke, the ingestion of toxic substances that traverse the blood-brain
barrier, etc.]. such degeneration inflicts a degree of non-innate
'randomness' within neural dynamics. following such, the portion of the
nervous system that remains intact 'compensates' for the toxcity-generated
deficit, but, since the deficit is not part of the nervous system's
'engineered'-in 'design', it cannot be eliminated, and because it can't,
it's ramifications 'reverberate' throughout the global system in a way that,
through 'normal' TD E/I-minimization, gradually 'whittles' even good and
useful stuff out of the nervous system. the nervous system 'blindly' and
automatically 'attacks' itself, all via 'normal' TD E/I-minimization that
excludes the 'normal' contribution[s] of the 'leisioned' area.
in my prior msgs in this thread [and in my last discussions before
'logging-off' of bionet.neuroscience ~~3 years ago], i was working toward
demonstrating the worth of using a differential-scanning paradigm to search
for the lesion locus, and to do anything that can be done to reproduce it's
'normal' contributions to neural dynamics. the pool of such tools is
expanding more and more. what's been missing is the differential-scanning
stuff, which leaves folks looking at by-products of degeneration that's,
initially, focussed elsewhere, and which, hopefully, can be ameliorated
before it 'twists' the neural Topology out of shape.
mechanical analogy through which to view it all: it's been an instance of
"the squeaky wheel getting the grease", but the 'squeaky wheel' isn't the
problem. when one looks, one sees that the 'wheel squeaks' because the
wagon's brakes are misaligned, so when they're applied, there's a torque in
the wheel-axel Geometry, and this is what burns-off the axel grease. fix the
brakes, =then= resupply the grease, and the system will function 'normally'.
2. even more-probable is the possibility that it's 'just' lack of sufficient
'interesting' stuff, including relative-novelty, within folks' experiential
environments as they age that results in a nervous system's functioning
becoming 'abnormally' increasingly-'random'. such can result from
insufficient funds, social isolation, etc.
this's relatively-'easy' to fix [interms of Seeing what needs fixin'], but
requires a sea change within intergenerational interactive dynamics that
include Respect for care-givers, rather than 'thinking' of them as 'losers'.
'sea changes' are =Hard= to bring-about.
>>With regard to the transgenic mouse models your theory would not apply as
>these mice have inherent genetic mutations (which are not present in aged
>humans) which bypass the "amyloid switching mechanism" in aged humans and
>produce amyloid regardless. I assume that you wish to apply your theory to
>the switching mechanism to the production of beta-amyloid, through which
>alzheimers disease manifests itself, in aged humans?
what i'm actually doing is using the B-Am thing as a jumping-off 'point' for
discussion of the more-globally-relevant stuff. it's an ongoing 'struggle'.
folks try to stuff 100% of this or that into artificially-delimited 'foci',
and, in doing so, the Science gets 'pigeon-holed', and stagnates. what i'm
actually doing is 'calling folks to task' with respect to the need for
remaining-in-touch with the 'big-picture'; with =global= nervous system
dynamics.
with respect to your query, above, yes, but in 'normal' nervous system
function the genetic 'switch' remains fully-extant and fully-functional, and
is neither 'on' nor 'off" but is activated as necessary, so that alignment
between the internal [nervous system] and external environments is
maintained. what i've been discussing has to do with the possibility that
the B-Am 'switch', itself, remains fully-extant and fully functional, but
it's being turned on and off with increasing 'randomness'.
there's a big difference between the two views.
it's actually the stuff of that 'big-difference' that i'm addressing, in an
attempt to lift folks up out of the 'crater' [relatively-high TD E/I local
minimum] in which the tight-integration of neural dynamics and molecular
dynamics isn't Recognized.
it's just more Hard stuff, which i do 'cause i'm all 'beat-up', anyway, so
'going where' i'll get 'beat-up', more, doesn't matter so much :-)
Truth is all that matters... and directionalities of 'motion' with respect
to it.
i'm Grateful for both your Gentleness in the face of my seeming
'absence'-of-Gentleness, and the LASER-sharp clarity of your queries.
Cheers, Kim, ken [k. p. collins]
p. s. i'm pretty 'tired', so i didn't 'agonize' in writing my comments,
above. and understand that they might not make sense to others. [if anyone
'wonders', it was my having to deal, last night, with the Big-Falacy stuff
in which what's been referred to as "depression" is mired-down, that's left
me 'tired'. having to run this particular gauntlet, once again, publicly, at
this 'time', understanding all the 'knee-jerk' stuff that's out-there with
respect to what's been referred to as "depression", is
Hard-to-endure-but-Needed-to-be-done stuff. it's fairly left me 'dying' from
the inside out, though. just when i 'thought' folks'd be abole to begin to
'move toward', no, more 'moving away from', is what'll transpire. oh well.
kpc]
