Thank you for elaborating your argument. I confess I would be more
engaged if you had responded to the points I made rather than simply
snipping half of them.
Of course I don't doubt that there must be sound biological reasons why
we sleep. Nor do I doubt that there are definite neurochemical changes
during sleep. My point was simply that this doesn't provide a logical
reason to discount any mental experience we might have during sleep as
being of no relevance to our waking selves.
Incidentally, I'm a neuropsychiatrist- a field I chose because of
exactly this point: the subtle and fascinating relationship between
brain and mind. I have little interest in Freud. However, as I said
before, one doesn't need to be an unreconstructed Freudian to believe
that dreams can sometimes (even if only occasionally) be significant in
some way. There doesn't need to be anything "magic" about this. Dream
imagery can simply provide metaphors for real-life situations. This is a
device that appears frequently in novels, films etc, and can also be
found in most branches of psychotherapy, not just extreme or dogmatic
forms. I would think that most people have had dreams which refer to
real-life events, so this is hardly a big claim I'm making here. I fully
agree that the concept is open to abuse -see all those ridiculous "dream
interpretation" books that New Agers love, or dogmatic therapists who
persuade people that they must have been abused as children on the basis
of their dreams. But it seems to me that you are throwing the baby out
with the bathwater in saying that dreams can never have any relevance
whatsoever. Your use of wholly biological arguments to support this
position strikes me as what Dennett calls "greedy reductionism". Once
again I will state that, while mind arises from brain, the contents of
mind cannot be explained away by reference to neurobiology.
In article <37ff61e0.1448878 at news.globetrotter.net>, kris oddson
<oddson at odyssee.net> writes
> kris oddson
>><oddson at odyssee.net> writes
>>>Sleep is purely and simply a series of repair and test sequences
>>>throughout the night.
>>>>This is opinion dressed up as fact. (Incidentally, someone else recently
>>posted here claiming to know exactly why we sleep, but when asked to
>>produce references he did not respond. If he's reading this- I'd still
>>be interested in any references.)
>I stand by my statement and it is indeed opinion as you suggest(I have
>read a lot on the subject)My opinion as to why we sleep is simply
>because the earth spins on its axis as it circles the sun and some
>orgaisms have taken advantage of the dark period to repair the ravages
>of the day.I know of no better answer to the why of sleep.
>>> No magic,no reinforcement of learning. The REM
>>>sequences are
>>>hallucinations while the brain is in a certifiably insane chemical
>>>state.Like J. Allan Hobson states on page 77 of his book THE CHEMISTRY
>>>OF CONSCIOUS STATES:" dreaming is not like a psychosis, it is a
>>>psychosis.It's just a healthy one,"
>>>>This is possibly true, although it doesn't seem to me to be a useful
>>concept. You don't *explain* anything by merely slapping a label on it.
>>If your preconception is that dreams are essentially meaningless, then
>>this label of "healthy psychosis" will appeal to you.
>Hobson is one of the foremost sleep researchers in the world. He has
>measured the cholinergic and aminergic conditions of the brain while
>in non-REM sleep and their reversals to the insane state while
>dreaming.We should remember that several systems, notably the
>temperature control system, are taken out of cruise control when we
>sleep. It has been shown by tests that the colder the ambient
>temperature when you sleep the more frequent the dream episodes.
>The reason, in my opinion, that the brain goes into an insane state is
>simply that a rational brain cannot be made to hallucinate and that
>the body needs to hallucinate so that it can test the various systems
>such as the male erection system which occurs every night, I
>understand.What else it tests and reports to the central nervous
>system I don't know.
>But my basic thesis (opinion) stands.Sleep is the organism's taking
>advantage of the darkness to repair, test, repair, test itself.
>>>>> It seems there are still people who have
>>>read Freud and can't shake some of his absurdities.
>I would like to end on that note.
>Thank you Nick Medford for responding.
>>
--
Nick Medford
