IUBio

Pain

Cijadrachon cijadra at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Fri May 21 03:42:29 EST 1999


> It seems that some patients who have a frontal lobotomy report a differing pain
>sensation. 

Where in the front?

If the stuff that is like the front computer is damaged, then there
are not enough parallel tracking powers maybe so that the sequencer
has to handle it, but if the sequencers upper frontal extension powers
were damaged, then again the own systems might be bothered at times,
where else the sequencer might have been able to maintain enough
long-time parallel tracking capacities to supervise the correct
execution of the sequences alone.

Simplified if the external capacities by the front computer are
damaged then there might not be enough parallel tracking powers for
sequencer stuff, so the sequencer has to handle a lot alone, and the
sequencer has a different painn perceiving.

That is why people who are called autists amaze some 
(concerening pain perception, repetioons and some other stuff)  
who do not run the sequencer and the own systems split such long time.

> our fresh young frontal lobes haven't had enough time to deal with all this 'emotional
>stuff' that forms the foundations of our lives.
Guess part of your ways to regard stuff I do not understand.

>What is it that the frontal lobes 'do' to this sensory information
>that makes it so distinctive from other sensory information and give it such
>urgency? 
I am not sure about the frontal lobes, the front is a bit far from me.
In geneeral the front computer does not seem to do stuff unless I tell
it to.

It seems external stuff, and the front computer under my command, the
upper frontal cortex seems under the sequencers command, 
there is an area in the middle that can get the prestage of a headache
if I should dock with the sequencer but there is something that I do
not do it in the time I should and then maybe theree is sort of a half
synch and parts too different;
and within magic there seems stuff where the entire front together
with other shareware and semishareware sectors retune for older
systems link & function settings, but that is a bit too unWestie for
you folks to get. (Anyway, so much for the oh so young front stuff,
grin...)

> Can other senses overwhelm us in like
>fashion(no evolutionary logic here)?

Ask someone to take a whistle or megaphone and to go full power
directly into your ear 
or to hop with spikes onto your foot, and you might find out.

>To get off the planet, what of a possible association between the frontal
>lobes inability to correctly interpret or deal with pain and sociopathology?

I did not underwstand.

To get off the planet most heree seeem to use the star chakra and
akasha below.
The front is rather irrelevant there.

Unless you mean not literally to astral travel and get off the planet,

but to create an own world, and there the front is making the
difference between the own capacities of about about a rabbit, and the
vast abstract and parallel thinking and calculating powers one has
using the front computer like parallel extension systems or something
like that. Then you can (ab)use if for sort of backup to
counter-power, ignore or alter emotion generator stuff, make up
intricate labyrinths of inner evasions and stuff like that.

Not sure if you are referring to that.


Didn't the brainfryer suggest to solve the problem of the own centers
abusing the front for disturbing the emotion generators 
by frying the front capacities and crippling there  till thee damages
are getting so high and the person gets it that to come back is not
wise  and is too crippled to use the front for a lot including that?

(I believe the concept was to generalize some emotion generators stuff
into depressions, 
and if damaging with pills did not make up for being a sense censored
Westie not having a few thousand years of healing data or straight
dating back into the dawn of human time, then next brainfrying around
in the front first in one side and then the other 
after drugging the person some more was on the list.

If you find out whom I mean I am sure he is not that incabable that he
doees not understand what what he is suggesting there to do with drugs
and electricity to systems of others is meaning for those systems  and
what they are/were good for.)

>Is there any evidence suggesting that sociopaths have a differing pain
>mechanism? 

What is a sociopath?

What are the differences of such a persons sytems (settings) to yours?
............

> the motivational-affective system

Which system exactly where?!

> somehow is not working properly

What for you means properly?

> -- it is impeded --
How?

> while the activity in the perceptual system remains intact. So although the incoming signals from the periphery
>are processed and properly registered as pain in the perceptual system, they
>either do not reach the motivational system 

As long as you are not saying which of the motivational systems you
are talking about you are not making much sense.

Maybe you should also say which perceptual systems...
In other words, how many systems are not perceiving anything?

Me can be or can not be perceptual systems for  lot of stuff from the
periphery, as you generalize it, as well.

Me is sort of a motivational centers cluster as well.

Actually a pretty powerful one, guess sort of number two of the load
of them.

Maybe you should first define what aa motivational system is for you.

I mean, if my stomach feels like puking, on a level there is that
motivation to do with it, then, but I am sure that that is not what
you are referring to.

How about yhou are saying which sectors in the brain you are meaning,
in neater Wstie fashion, and that way it might be easier to get what
you are saying.

Or you do it in an old brainsurfer way of pointing at the head and
saying where roughly how deep inside  or by saying where to from your
own systems in the head, like giving focus sequences instructions for
getting the according areas "online" well enough.



This way it is more like the vague stuff of a headblind not getting
what is going in the head and guessing,
using the vague generalized terms that are common then.


>The case of lobotomy seems to be a little different: the operation is not
>performed directly on the limbic system,

PERFORMED.

That's a way to put crippling.

What do you want to do, straight cripple the own I centers instead of
mutilating front stuff?

Ever considered that the rest of the surviving I or the third emotion
generator might try to kill you back for that one?

> instead, by cutting the connections between the
>limbic structures and the frontal lobes, the limbic system is deprived of a
>very rich source of input from the lobes. 
Maybe some should do such with some who do such or suggest such or
like the idea.

>With the discovery of the unique role of the limbic system in emotional experiences,
Which part(s)?
I am not even getting if you are talking about own systems, amygdala
or substantia innominata or other systems stuff.
I'd say the discovery for me is more that you are not even discerning
between some pretty different systems and yet are going on about
cutting around.

> it has become possible to explain why seriously depressive patients do not care about their
>physical pains, if they happen to experience any. 

Try hopping into the foot of one again and again insulting him, and
you might discover that some actually do.

Maybe the point is more that there is stuff that is not that relevant
if hving other problems.

Apart from that if the sequencer is in central navigation control
though lower stuff might not be transferred to my systems, high stuff
would be.

Just as you just noticed if staying connected and focussing there it
tends to hurt considerably more than off-lining again after "telling"
the sequencer maybe something along the exasperated line that after
havin a box with stones in the same corner for years it should be that
hard to after so and so many collisions with it at some point make an
exception to that stuff under knee hight is not that relevant and
program the thingie in.  Then again if being depressed it might simply
be less relevant if having a bruise more or less or bleeding a bit
some place, than not having a girl-friend to kiss the spot and come
with a band-aid and be concerned over you, and that maybe no one
realluy is much concerned over you, and maybe that sucks so much, that
that hurts more.

If you were to get it inside, you would also get more about why.

Guess if not limbically internally differentiating one does not.

>Similarly, in some cases of congenital insensitivity to pain, there is strong evidence that there is
>something wrong in the limbic systems of the patients.

The sequencer should still have it then, unless something were wrong
there, too.

The sequencer is not exactly an intellectual genius, but it can think,
learn alone and has independent data storing, so I do not get why it
should matter that much if the own systems are not that much able or
interested in receiving outer pain. Maybe I am too autist to
understand, and too used to the sequencer being in central control and
clashing into something and me sometimes afterwards not knowing what
it was where the injury is from to find that thought track that
interesting.

It more annoys me if there is something where it messes up repeatedly
seemingly also because it is below knee hight, and where I get annoyed
that it cannot stick it into its coordination data to take more care
at that place.  I am not in the mood to be interrupted 
by stuff crashing to the floor just because the sequencer is messing
up.

But that is maybe more anger at that it is not doing navigation proper
enough and that I have to bother with it, than anger about pain.

The sequencer usually does not cause major pain stuff.
I tend to cause the major pain stuff.

And I do not get why it is tht important to get it.

But maybe if there is really something wrong that the person is born
and can't get it, even if trying to use magic and get restructuring
data from other brains and it still does no achieve what they want to
achieve, then it would be worrying.

But then for me as an LSD teacher  it might be easier to wait till the
person is there and has the problem and ask the person to try to
access the according systems within the own head and within my head,
and then I might try it with others and try to figure out what seems
different there and if that can be reprogrammed a bit or not.

Took me a year to get some stuff within "seeing" that other people
tend to get within hours, and my first teacher for such was amazed
that I did not get it after those hours, but I transcopied it me part
of the stuff anyway enough now.  Just took a while.

If a structure is really damanged due to MBD there are IMO limits to
the repair possibilities, but IMO if there are still enough of the
basics left one can vampire onself data of non-MBD brains about that,
and if that does not work, one can still worry about it.

Maybe you Westies just like worrying about stuff before the problem is
at hand, and like to ignore old methods that have been useful for
solving such for sthousands of years,
and I might be too practical oriented to get what it is good for to
think about that that way.

There is not THE depressed, THE blabla whatever.
There are diffeernt individuals with different brains, even twins not
being exactly the same.

There tend to be also common structures, and a lot can be
reprogrammed.

The capacities for targetted reprogramming depend on the person and
the teacher and if they are done sober or with certain drugs.

It is a differences if an MBD LSD brainsurfer reprograms, a sober
"autist" due to emotional reasons reprograms, a magician reprgorams 
or someone snse censored reprograms who is not used to off-line from
many areas and focus on one or a few systems inside.

If not going into what the person has for problems and what
reprogramming methods were tried (or not and why not if the person
wants certain changes) the whole talk sounds more like empty
theorizing on so vage a base, that most of the time not even between
very different systems there is any discerning,
nor specific indication what is wrong in which of the systems 
or a description of what the person says the problems are.

>We need to delineate clearly what is suggested at the personal level by the
>account that the gate control theory gives for reactive disassociation, and
>make some consequences explicit. 

I regret I did not get which gate control,
but then again I am not a subperceiver, and am basically not that far
from zero for inner zero for brain stem, innner temporal and some
other areas, so I guess even if I were to get what you mean, I'd not
get why we need to delineate anything.
If I do not know something, but I'd need to know, I guess I'd try to
vulture for some brainsurfer who has enough data there and if I find
one get on his nerves big time that we go akasha surfing on LSD a few
times and I am allowed to try to transcopy me data for that.
And if I were stinking rich I might give him money so he reprograms
for "closing a few more gates" and telling me about subperceiving
data, and allowing me to go to the prestage of autist
I-I-differentiation merge and try to go on for more of it, 
and then maybe do some special training for some years, till I get
level 6-10 for magic brain perceiving and get me that show grand
style. If one could get a subsegregator to get those levels without
losing subsegregating powers, that'd be neat. That could be hell of a
transfer brain. That'd be one where I am sure some of the other
akashasurfers here'd also real appreciate a telepathic link or two.
:-) 

Maybe I should try to remeber the one about "we need to delineate"...
generalizing the own needs for the rest of the planet.
All the more if I babble off about some theory, where another might
not even get what I mean.
That'd make it even more funny.

>... combined with its explanation at the subpersonal level by the best scientific theory
>of pain we have got so far, 

Ah, so that is the best we've got.

>strongly suggests what I have said earlier;
>namely, that the inner phenomenology of pain experiences is, contrary to
>what has been traditionally thought by the folk and even by some
>philosophers alike, a highly complex matter, that we can distinguish at
>least two qualitative components of this complex phenomenology. What makes
>pain experiences hurt phenomenologically, that is, what makes them
>"disliked," is the working of the motivational system.

It could not be expressed more general, could it.

The advantage of not being into Westie stuff is that the own stuff
might merrily not just discern between sequencer and own pain
perception differences, but also have noticed that alterations of
substances outputs of the third and fifth emotion generator can alter
pain perception basically to near zero

In other words when next time kicking out stuff to do with the
hypothalamus and the adrenal glands maybe bother to watch what
differences that can make concerning the perception of pain.

>John

Was it you who criticized something along the line of me hopping
around on other people's opinions? 
... Guess I just enjoy the orcish fun of being primitive.

What do I have the front biocomputer and the language structurer for  
if not to use them for giving primitive rank fighting programs of the
third emotion generator historically more modern ways of expressions.

In fantasy role games I liked to play a rather small troll of just
about 2.72 m who in a lot was rather off-kind, and an a bit chaotic
and not very apt grey magician. Using instead of a magic wand a troll
club, so if magic failed to follow the old motto
where reason fails
force prevails.

<};-)=



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