seems to me, you've "gotcha'd" yourself, Frank.
see my reply, posted in response to my first reply to your post, quoted
below.
hypothesis: you are crowing about what you perceive to be the 'consequences'
of your 'interaction' with me, here in bionet.neuroscience, to some folks,
perhaps with an 'interest' in keeping NDT 'hushed-up', offline. under the
pretense of 'network problems', you've spent the last couple of days
searching online databases looking for anything that would contradict what
i'd previously posted. you found nothing. now, you're in trouble, not only
with me, but your friends offline, 'two'.
your False accusation of 'dishonesty' on my part needs to be RETRACTED,
Frank. i don't expect you to do the right thing, but i'm telling you your
False accusation needs to be retracted.
K. P. COLLINS
F. Frank LeFever wrote in message <7nole7$kr1 at dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com>...
>In <uAe3Qzy1#GA.419 at cpmsnbbsa02> "Ken Collins" <KPaulC at email.msn.com>
>writes:
>>>>the literature with respect to HM is a perfect case in point. everyone
>was
>>saying that the hippocampi are 'involved in 'memory' formation'
>>>Gotcha! You are even more dense than I thought, or exceptionally
>dishonest.
>>That is NOT what you asserted before. You claimed that back in 1975
>eveerybody but you was saying that memories were STORED IN the
>hippocampus. Althoough you had tto qualify tthat a bit when pressed
>for exact dates, and admitted that you also "had it wrong" for a few
>years after that. Actually, everybody else had it RIGHT, long before
>you did: whatever the continuing controversies about the exact role of
>the hippocampus, HM's retention of previously formed memories after his
>bilateral hippocampectomies puutt to rest anyh nootioon tthat memories
>were stored IN TTHE HIPPOCAMPUS. (Get it? "stored BY the hippocampus"
>is not the same as "stored IN the hippocampus". Maybe you're thinking
>"stored NEARBY the hippocampus"?)
>>By the way: stuff the pretentious plural. When we talk about (for
>example) the marvelous function of the human eye, we do not feel the
>need to reassure people that we know most of us have TWO eyes, and that
>we know to write an "s" after eye if we are talking about both of
>them... I suppose you think that important journal that began
>publication a few years ago is called "Hippocampi"...
>>>>>F. Frank LeFever wrote in message
><7ngl3c$psb at dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>...
>>>>>>Ah, at last, something testable. I don't have the time or the
>>>motivation for it, but someone who would like to do a quick survey of
>>>journals 1975-1983 can tell us how many people in this period were
>>>saying that the hippocampus was a place where memories were stored.
>If
>>>textboooks were no longer saying it, this would be a sharp refutation
>>>of Ken's prescience; if some were saying it was, I'd not take it
>>>seriously, because textbooks are always behind the times.
>>>>>>I don't know when poor HM had his surgery, but I kinda think it was
>>>before that period, and he is of course the poster boy for the case
>>>against hippocampus being where memories "are".
>>>>>>Meanwhile, what on earth is Ken saying near the bottom of this
>pathetic
>>>history? At first, I thought he was asserting that ALL Neuroscience
>>>papers were false; but on re-reading his two assertions, I have come
>to
>>>think that he is saying: "All neuroscience papers are false except
>for
>>>the ones that are true; and if they are true, I can find a differentt
>>>way to get the same resultts." Maybe he'd like tto cite one of each,
>>>and show us just exactly how he'd do both of these things (in 1.5Meg
>or
>>>less).
>>>>>>>>>F. LeFever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In <esZfk4k1#GA.294 at cpmsnbbsa05> "Ken Collins" <KPaulC at email.msn.com>
>>>writes:
>>>>>>>>the incorrect view was solidly entrenched in the literature when i
>was
>>>in
>>>>'grad school' in 1975-6.
>>>>>>>>i definitely had it wrong in a 'comic book' i sent out, but don't
>>>recall
>>>>when i sent it out... (i did a 'comic book' in an effort to present
>>>the
>>>>ideas in a, hopefully, curiosity-invoking format).
>>>>>>>>i'd have to dig it out and reread it, but i think had it wrong in my
>>>1980
>>>>paper, _Why: Human Behavior_ (which was the precursor to AoK, and
>>>treating
>>>>the hippocampi as a 'recorder' was the only major error that i
>recall
>>>as
>>>>being(?) in that paper).
>>>>>>>>i had it right by the 'time' of my 1983 presentation at the Naval
>>>Research
>>>>Laboratory.
>>>>>>>>i'd have to check my papers to narrow it down more.
>>>>>>>>it might 'surprise' you, but i don't spend a lot of 'time' keeping
>>>track of
>>>>individuals who've 'borrowed' my work... and i'm not your 'research
>>>>assistant'. if you've a Q in Physics, which is what i've been
>working
>>>in for
>>>>the past decade, i'll be glad to provide refs.
>>>>>>>>i did what i had to do in Neuroscience. it's never been formally
>>>published.
>>>>>>>>i've thought more about my 'nausea' comments, the other night, and
>in
>>>the
>>>>past... it's 'just' a cop-out, 'dramatic' way of saying that i can
>>>say, with
>>>>certainty, that there will never be a Neuroscience paper with
>respect
>>>to
>>>>which:
>>>>>>>>1. i cannot redesign the experimental method, and make predictions
>>>that will
>>>>be verified.
>>>>>>>>2. or that i can demonstrate is incorrect.
>>>>>>>>by invoking the 'short-cut', 'nausea', i was just trying to convey
>the
>>>sense
>>>>of 'frustration' that i experience when i go in the Neuroscience
>>>stacks, see
>>>>all the disconnected stuff, know that it's all connectable, but
>>>'there's no
>>>>use' in working to connect anything in it... because no one will
>>>listen, or
>>>>understand, anyway.
>>>>>>>>ken collins
>>>>>>>>flefever wrote in message <7n8os6$l7o at dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>...
>>>>>>>>>>Well, when DID you say the hippocampus was not for "storeing"
>>>memories
>>>>>and everybody else was saying it was. Was it in 1986? Before
>1986?
>>>>>Can you ESTIMATE the date? What was the EARLIEST possible date?
>>>(i.e.
>>>>>when did you first start saying or writing this stuff?) How much
>>>>>longer DID everybody else persist in saying the hippocampus was for
>>>>>"storeing" memories? (can you name one or two of these people?)
>>>>>>>>>>F. LeFever
>>>>>>>>>>In <euMeIXA1#GA.274 at cpmsnbbsa02> "Ken Collins"
><KPaulC at email.msn.com>
>>>>>writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>beyond AoK, which was first circulated in 1986, i don't care to
>look
>>>>>through
>>>>>>my papers, Frank. I've preserved everything... anyone who wants to
>>>>>look can
>>>>>>see for themselves how the concepts developed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>i am certain that, when i started circulating AoK, it was as i
>>>stated
>>>>>in the
>>>>>>prior msg... to get folks in Neuroscience thinking-straight with
>>>>>respect to
>>>>>>it was one of the biggest battles i had to fight.... one doesn't
>>>>>easily
>>>>>>"forget" such, and the scars accumulated while doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>ken collins
>>>>>>>>>>>>F. Frank LeFever wrote in message
>>>>><7n677k$5j8 at dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com>...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Just what was the date when you said the hippocampus doesn't
>store
>>>>>>>memories and everybody else said it did? (The theoretical
>>>statements
>>>>>of
>>>>>>>"the others" are publicly documented and dated; are yours?)
>>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
