In <e3DRBnv0#GA.409 at cpmsnbbsa02> "Ken Collins" <KPaulC at email.msn.com>
writes:
>>forgive me, but this stuff is all quite old. NPR did a segment on it
on
>21Sep96, and it was more than a decade old by then.
>>ken collins
Did I say it was new? Should it be new? Having met Mishkin and supped
with him over three decades ago, and talked with himn a few times since
(indeed, he was one of my speakers at a conference I organized a few
years back--v. my summary and commentary in Int. J. Neurosci), so I
have been following his work for a long time and have a pretty good
idea what is new and not new. Even though it is "old stuff", Leslie
was not ashamed of presenting it one more time, at NYU last February.
I guess I thought there might be some bionet.neuroscience reader who
not only had not had the privilege I have had (i.e. hearing it directly
from these researchers) but might even be in some far-off heathen
country which cannot hear NPR! (for such unfortunates, let me e
xplain: NPR = National Public Radio; given that there are nations other
than mine, it's a presumptious name--other nations, other publics,
other radios?)
Well, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. Maybe Ken was referring not to
the dorsal/ventral stream story, but to what I said about
derealization, etc. Maybe THAT was on NPR.
MAYBE the NPR program EVEN went so far as to draw the distincttion I
drew, bettween "visual" distortions in the context of emotional
experiences suggestive of limbic phenomena and "purely visual"
distortions which might arise earlier along these cortical visual
streams and not involve limbic structures. WELL, if that's so, all I
can say is "GREAT MINDS RUN IN THE SAME CHANNELS!"
But even if NPR did cover exactly all this same ground and made exactly
the same distinctions, etc. (spooky! almost like General and Special
Theories of Relativity and every other major insight of the ;20th
century being already anticipated in AoK!), I STILL "stand on what I
have posted", because maybe SOMEONE didn't hear that program.
F. LeFever
>>F. Frank LeFever wrote in message
<7n0q1v$7ae at dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>...
>>>>Tore makes an important point, I believe. In my own response, I made
>>reference to derealization, and to temporal lobe epilepsy; others
have
>>referred to "non-neurological" contexts for experiences of
>>derealization and/or depersonalization.
>>>>Given the confluence of limbic system and sensory systems in the
>>medial temporal lobe, there are rich opportunities for sensory
>>distortions with this sort of emotional flavor.
>>>>However, just as regards temporal lobe alone, we know from (e.g.)
Mort
>>Mishkin's work (much of it with Leslie Ungerleider) something about
the
>>different paths visual input takes to the hippocampus (they have
>>focused on the distinction between dorsal "where" and ventral "what"
>>visual streams). Accordingly, we should be alert to aberrations at
>>earlier points along these routes which might produce "pure" visual
>>anomalies without any social/emotional aspects, other than the
natural
>>reactions one might have to odd visual experiences.
>>>>Two examples that come to mind: palinopsia; formed visual
>>hallucinations (e.g. with some disturbances of posterior
>>cerebrovascular circulation).
>>>>F. Frank LeFever, Ph.D.
>>New York Neuropsychology Group
>>>>>>>>>>In <3791BFDC.3784 at online.no> Tore Lund <tl001 at online.no> writes:
>>>>>>In article <3790408A.2ED6 at online.no>, Tore Lund <tl001 at online.no>
>>writes
>>>>In the book "Complexity" by Roger Lewin (1993) [snip]
>>>>>>>> ...Chris felt he was living in the middle of a cube, the sides
of
>>>> which were cinema screens with pictures projected on them.
>>>> (Beginning of chapter 8, page 151 in Phoenix ed.)
>>>>>>Nick Medford wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't read the book, but the quote above sounds like he could
be
>>>> describing the depersonalisation/derealisation syndrome. [snip]
>>>>>>>> These phenomena are currently the subject of research at the
>>Institute
>>>> of Psychiatry in London. You can get more info and references at
our
>>>> website: http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/home/dpu/index.htm>>>>>>Thanks for the pointer, Nick. There are quite a few references to
>>>visual disturbances at this site. Let's look at some of them:
>>>>>>Anonymous:
>>>>>> "Get telescopic vision ... The people I was talking to began to
>>turn
>>> into paper cutouts."
>>>>>>Jennifer:
>>>>>> "My vision even feels like a 2-dimensional movie screen all of
the
>>>>> time."
>>>>>>Kerry:
>>>>>> "Suddenly, that surreal, dream-like quality returned, complete
>>with
>>> altered depth perception..."
>>>>>>The mini-FAQ:
>>>>>> "I really don't have any 3-D vision it seems. Everything appears
>>> flat."
>>>>>>You and C_Thomas seem to doubt that Chris was actually seeing the
>>world
>>>as a cube with the world projected on its sides. Taken together
with
>>>the quotes above, however, it seems to me that these people actually
>>>have *visual* disturbances.
>>>>>>Presumably, what happens is that patients of this sort come to a
>>>specialist who is not interested in vision - and the vision
>>specialists
>>>never see these patients. Hence these disturbances are never
properly
>>>studied and described.
>>>>>>I repeat that I think these phenomena could tell us something about
>>our
>>>stereoscopic vision - because the distortions that can arise in a
>>system
>>>can tell us a lot about the nature of that system and rule out
models
>>>that don't allow for such distortions.
>>>>>>Just a thought.
>>>--
>>>Tore Lund <tl001 at online.no>
>>>>>>>
