In article <37930866.1C32 at armory.com>,
Steve <rstevew at armory.com> wrote:
> Okamura wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:52:57 GMT, flannel at mindless.com (Flannel)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:21:00 -0500, "Dan Fake"
> > ><danfake at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Flannel wrote in message <37910484.153725452 at news.prodigy.net>...
> > >>How did you get into my head? You must have read the links
> > >>I provided. Aside from the coward and crap words, you came
> > >>close. Care to share with us what your views on agnosticism
> > >>are? Please don't tell me you're of the opinion that agnosticism
is
> > >>the superior intellectual and logical position over believers and
> > >>disbelievers but if that's your position, so be it.
> > >
> > >Well the crap was my word, but the "coward" came from one of your
> > >posts. One of the urls you gave read "agnosticism = coward". It
> > >appeared to be a spin on the "agnostics are gutless atheists" that
we
> > >get in alt.agnosticism from time to time.
> >
> > It is always surprising how many people who say that don't come even
> > close to understanding what some people mean by the term agnostic.
We
> > all mean different things and all.
> >
> > >As far as agnosticism being intellectually superior, how would I
know?
> > >I'm an agnostic. Agnostics are ignorant. For myself, I choose the
> > >terms agnostic and agnosticism because they appear to be the most
> > >accurate terms to describe me and my outlook.
> >
> > For the record since my last splurge at this NG I have changed
> > classification albeit not changed that much philosopohically. I now
> > class myself as a Philosophical Taoist. Most people don't know what
> > the hell that means in relation to anything (well AFAIK) so not as
> > many preconceived notions. But a Phil. Taoist is inherently agnostic
> > anyways..
> >
> > >Agnostic and atheist can be overlapping terms. I know weak
atheist
> > >that state that they are also technically agnostic and agnostics
that
> > >state that they are technically weak atheist. Their viewpoints
seem
> > >to be nearly identical with the main difference being the label
they
> > >choose to call themselves. I'm not going to quibble over labels.
> >
> > Come on, it is usually the backbone of all atheist/agnostic NG
> > posts... that and theist trolls.
> >
> > >Personally, I don't know if there is a god or not. As to whether
it
> > >is likely there is a god, that depends on what kind of god you are
> > >talking about. Are you talking about the old gods that were
numerous
> > >and fallible, or the western version of god that is singular,
> > >omnipotent, etc; or one of those fairly new definitions of god
such as
> > >"god is the sum total of the universe" or "god is collective of
> > >physical laws that determine the universe?" God is a vague term
and
> > >agnostic is flexible enough term to answer it. I use it because
it
> > >is a useful term that addresses more than just god. I use the
term to
> > >mean that I don't see the big picture. Is there a big picture?
> > >Soliphicism could be correct as far as I know.
> >
> > I used to know what that mean, now I am clueless.
> > <Okamura browses a dictionary>
> > Oh, I see. But going by this overly generalised definition you would
> > believe only in yourself.. Have you changed your belief in this
> > regard? Like last time I talked to you you had doubts over your own
> > existence (IIRC).
> >
> > > I don't use agnostic to portray some logical superiority, I use
it to
> > >attempt an accurate portrayal of ignorance. I don't have the big
> > >answers. I don't trust anyone who claims to have the big
answers. I
> > >live in ignorance, not because of choice, but IMHO, ignorance is
our
> > >inherent state. Any thing and possibly everything that I might
think
> > >could be wrong. That, to me, is agnosticism.
> >
> > Just out of curiousity do you use agnostic more widely as an
adjective
> > for anything which your agnosticism lends its uncertainty upon?
> > Like, "Do you think that we have a soul?", "Well, I am kinda
agnostic
> > on that point."
> >
> > >I have a deep distrust of anyone who is not insecure.
> > > Roger A. Bird
> >
> > Still?? Ahhh well.
> >
> > Okamura
> ----------------------------------------------
> Anyone who thinks they know is not humble. Believers and disbeievers
> think they know and say they know. They don't, and they can't, they
are
> lying.
>> Whatever you are just sure that you've been through and are now
certain
> about, ponder confronting a gigantic being beyond life which has power
> even over your mind and heart, and then contemplate that it STILL may
> only be a powerful evil pan-dimensional alien and not God at all.
>> Humility is truth. It is the core of the scientific method. Be humble.
> Anyone who says that they know, this side of death and for all I know
> the other side, is surely foolish. Do what makes sense and feels right
> and good, but don't try to justify your life with invented human
> malarkey, and that's all there is available besides love and warmth.
>> The only justification for your life that makes sense is what is
written
> upon your heart before the foundation of the world. You can't count on
> it being in books intact, and you will find it in many more and
> different books than supposed 'holy" books. The important thing is
this,
> that it is inside you, and that YOU are what validates it when you see
> it and it makes sense. The book is just dead plants and is as often
> wrong. Your "heart" is the ultimate authority because you have to live
> there.
>> Atheism that rejects the feudal monarch model of "God" is fine, as
that
> was clearly only an economic despotism. But if that's all it is it
> remains in the dark ages. Profound atheist materialism looks like
> somebody wasn't paying attention very well to how very strange it is
to
> exist at all and to feel you are you. Why is that required at all?
> And what in the world does it imply?
> Be gentle with each other.
> -Steve
> --
> -Steve Walz rstevew at armory.comftp://ftp.armory.com:/pub/user/rstevew
> -Electronics Site!! 1000 Files/50 Dirs!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew
> Europe Naples Italy:
http://ftp.unina.it/pub/electronics/ftp.armory.com
Oh dear, after all my sarcasm, I rather like what you said here. Still
don't care for the other though.
>
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