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Unexplained memory disorder (P.S.)

Loonyl liam at freeserve.co.uk
Tue Aug 3 12:10:58 EST 1999

On 3 Aug 1999 04:44:24 GMT, flefever at ix.netcom.com(F. Frank LeFever)
>Is it a memory problem or an "oppositional" problem?
>I tell you "clinical neuropsychologist" and you tell me "memory
>researcher" or "neurologist" or "neuropsychiatrist".
I didn't know the difference between them, but then again neither did
my doctor.

>It's as if you said your car had an "transmission" problem, and when I
>asked whether you had seen an auto mechanic you saied, "yes, I've seen
>carpenters, masons, electricians, everybody!  My car's problem is a
>mystery nobody can solve!"
>Neurologists are good if you have a problem with something below the
>brainstem, or perhaps something above if it is an obvious and
>well-known syndrome.  Neuropsychiatrists are good if you have some
>well-recognized organic condition that involves "psychiatric" symptoms.
>Both will make a diagnosis based on a brief interview and review of
>your history (itself a product of a few brief interviews?) and perhaps
>some routine lab tests (CT, spinal tap? you name it).
>Academminc "memory researchers" ay actually administter soome tests,
>but are not likely to have the clinical experience oor knowledge to
>interpret them in terms of clinical diagnoses.
>A clinical neuropsychologist will (1) test memory exhaustively, using
>objective tests with well-developed norms (i.e. so they can say how far
>your performance differs from the average IF at all)--in coontrast to a
>neurologist or neuropsychiatrist asking you to "remember these three
>objects" and asking you what they were 5 minutes later, and assuming
>they know how many you should remember...(Visual memory?  tyPes of
>visual memory?  recognition vs. recall? learning vs. remembering? 
>short vs. long delay?  free vs. cued recall?  coding vs. storage vs.
>retrieval?  HU-U-U-U-UHHHHH?)
>They might recall hearing SOME of these terms, but these would be
>residues of their early training, not anything they address in their
>clinical practice.  Their time is too valuable for them to even considr
>administering lengthy objective tests.
>The academic memory researchers will knoow much more than I doo about
>the history of all of these terms, and the latest findings regarding
>these aspects of memory--but they will not know them in a clinical
>context, will probably not test any of these things using clinically
>normed tests, and if they do will not have the clinical experience to
>relate them to specific syndromes, and will NOT have the resourcs or
>expeience to testt things OTHER THAN MEMORY which may be relevant to
>tthe "presenting" problem.
>When I asked if you had seen a neuropsychologist, I MEANT "a

Ok thanks for that, I'm off to see my psychiatrist tommorow, so I'll
ask her if I've seen a clinical neuropsychologist.

>I stiill don't see a simple answer to my simple queation:  WHICH
>University?  (and was it a neuropsych CLINIC or just an academic memory
Sorry, it was manchester university, manchester, UK and it was an
academic memory lab. 
>Your inability to organize your replies or your search effectively
>might suggest to some neuropsychologists an explanation for your
>problems which may have nothing to do with memory at all, although it
>may seem so subjectively.
thanks for that too.
I'll mention that to the psychiatrist tommorow as well.
>F. Frank LeFever, Ph.D.
>New York Neuropsychology Group
>In <37a626e7.5908625 at news.freeserve.co.uk> liams at cwcom.net (Loonyl)
>>Hi again,
>>(BTW this isn't directed solely at Frank)
>>If you look at the link
>>(sorry for the change of URL, I've changed ISP's)
>>it details what University and the types of test already been done,
>>etc, but no matter.
>>I have seen a neurologist, and a neuropsychiatrist
>>but have been seen at most twice, and no further visits are planned.
>>They do not know what's causing the memory disorder, and so nothing is
>>As my psychiatrist said, "sometimes people don't fit into any
>>category", and that I don't have a "mental illness",
>>the psychology researchers said "We are all scratching our heads,
>>no-one knows what's causing the problem".(after having feedback from
>>neurologists, psychoneurologists etc)
>>ANother said that "I'm been fobbed off, and basically being passed
>>around as a token gesture"
>>I am asking on this group, as things are not moving forward for me,
>>and I hoped that someone may have come across this before, or could
>>point me in the right direct etc. 
>>Its a long shot, but its better than not doing anything, I think many
>>would do the same in my situation, and I  do not post here regularly, 
>>This is my 2nd request. I have been struggling for the last 3 years,
>>to get my condition recognised, and have had to fight all along the
>>way to see any of the experts that I have, so I don't think this I can
>>be easily slotted into a new label of "internet Munchausen", but
>>stranger things happenend.
>>Maybe it's because I'm in the UK, so the NHS can't afford to do
>>further tests, or is it because there are no effective treatments for
>>my condition, or that the research into human memory impairments
>>haven't advanced much?
>>On 2 Aug 1999 05:08:37 GMT, flefever at ix.netcom.com(F. Frank LeFever)
>>>University Psych Dept.??  What university?  ("local" doesn't mean
>>>to us; we don't know where you live)  Was this at the university's
>>>neuropsych CLINIC??  Or are we talking about academic memory
>>>researchers. NOT a good place to look for diagnosis of a (perhaps)
>>>neurological condition.
>>>F. LeFever
>>>In <37a4aa84.566392 at news.freeserve.co.uk> liams at cwcom.net (Loonyl)
>>>>Hi again,
>>>>i forgot to mention that the site is not the same as before.
>>>>It contains details of the tests that have been done at my
>>>>local universities psychology deparment.
>>>>I hoped it would mean more to you guys, than it does to me.
>>>>On Sun, 01 Aug 1999 19:39:34 GMT, liams at cwcom.net (Loonyl) wrote:
>>>>>Hi frank,
>>>>>this is the same person as before.
>>>>>I did go to the links you mentioned,
>>>>>and was seen by Addenbrookes in London.
>>>>>(waited 6 months for the reply, it was "we don't know", end of
>>>>>I have seen a neurologist, neuro-psychiatrist, neuropsychologist
>>>>>psychologist etc but no-one has the answer.
>>>>>I hope I'm not wasting anyones time here, it is a genuine request
>>>>>help, and i do try any options put forward.
>>:      ¥____________________________________________¥
>>:            http://www.mental-health.freeserve.co.uk                 
>>:                 All you ever wanted to know,      
>>:                  but were too tired to ask        :o)      

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