IUBio

WARNING: Dendritic Spreading

Leslie E. Packer, PhD lpacker at nyc.pipeline.com
Sun May 26 20:38:31 EST 1996


On May 26, 1996 20:37:39 in article <Re: WARNING: Dendritic Spreading>,
'kspencer at s.psych.uiuc.edu (Kevin Spencer)' wrote: 
 
 
>jhammell at ix.netcom.com(John Hammell) writes: 
> 
>>In <4nrs7l$l1d at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> kspencer at s.psych.uiuc.edu (Kevin
Spencer) 
>>writes:  
>>> 
>>>The problem with this argument is that you're describing the internal 
>>>experiences of people who *don't need* the medication.  These drugs will

>>>have different effects on "normal" nervous systems than on nervous
systems 
>>>that are not "normal"; that is, patients with the types of disorders
that 
>>>would be treated with the drugs.  It doesn't follow that the drugs will 
>>>affect these patients the same way they affect healthy individuals. 
> 
>>Define normal. What you say here is garbage. 
> 
>[ranting snipped] 
> 
>In the interest of promoting scientific discussion on this newsgroup,
would 
>you please explain why what I've said is garbage? 
> 
>As for defining normal... I can't.  Nor can anyone else.  That's why I put

>it in quotes. 
 
Kevin, 
 
What you said is certainly not "garbage," Mr. Hammell's post to the
contrary notwithstanding.  Interesting how they cite two studies but
neglect data that are on-point and confirm your statement.  One such
abstract is cited here: 
 
Miller AL  Maas JW  Contreras S  Seleshi E  True JE  Bowden C 
   Castiglioni J 
Acute effects of neuroleptics on unmedicated schizophrenic patients and
controls. 
  In: Biol Psychiatry (1993 Aug 1) 34(3):178-87 
 
 
  Acute administration of haloperidol (0.2 mg/kg) produced many more side
effects in normal controls than in unmedicated schizophrenic patients.
Prior to the neuroleptic challenge, both groups were on the peripheral
monoamine oxidase inhibitor, debrisoquin, for at least 1 week, in order to
enhance the relative contribution of CNS catecholamine metabolites to those
measured in both plasma and urine.  The patient group had higher plasma
levels of  methoxyhydroxyphenylglycol (MHPG) and homovanillic acid (HVA)
and  higher urinary MHPG output than controls, but there were no effects 
of haloperidol challenge, compared to placebo challenge. In both  groups
there were significant declines in plasma HVA levels from 8:30 AM to 12
NOON. These declines were unaffected by the haloperidol  challenge.
Explanations for the marked differences in behavioral  effects of
haloperidol on patients and controls include the  possibility that dopamine
receptor numbers were increased in the  brains of the schizophrenic
patients. 
 
                  *** end of abstract **** 
 
Similarly, despite repeated claims in this thread about how medications
produce the brain changes, there is a significant body of literature
indicating that many of these changes are pre-existing to treatment. 
 
It would be really helpful if there was a balanced discussion on the
important issues, but the anti-psychiatry forces do not seem capable of
rational discourse on the topic.  We may be wasting our breath.  It seems
to be a case of "Don't confuse me with the facts." 
 
Regards, 
 
 
Leslie E. Packer, PhD



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