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creating a good climate for women

Tue Jun 11 10:12:34 EST 1996

The whole message is below for those who are just picking up the thread.  
I think Susan is being a little bit overly critical.  My interpretation 
of what Sarah was saying was the "you can't do your postdoc at the 
university you got your PhD in" unwritten rule.  Even if you switch labs 
and systems, it's often looked upon as being unwilling to sacrifice for 
science.  Never mind you didn't move because your spouse still had a 
year to go on his/her degree (or maybe especially because of this-this 
means you are more dedicated to a marriage then to science and that is 
seen by some people as "bad").  Is this what you were trying to say 

Julie (rest of sig block at very bottom due to complexities of mail 

>To:            womenbio at net.bio.net
>From:          "Susan.Jane.Hogarth."<sjhogart at unity.ncsu.edu>
>Subject:       Re: creating a good climate for women
>Date:          Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:20:55 -0400
>Sarah Boomer wrote:
>> I really feel that the entire science career track is
>> anti-family and anti-relationship because of the unwritten (or 
>> rules about having to move so many times throughout one's career in
>> science. 
>Rules? I don't _think_ so. Sure, it's maybe more common now for 
>scientists to 
>move around these days than a couple of decades ago, but there are 
>that, too. 
>> I have known women (and I'm sure there are quite a few men, too)
>> who have been denied post doc fellowships because they didn't pick 
>up and
>> move across the country (which would have been difficult because of
>> family). 
>Huh? _denied_??? What do you mean? - if you applied for a job across 
>I'd think you'd realise you had to _go to where the job was_ (doh!). In 
>you are not being _denied_ the job; you are simply not available to 
>take the
>God forbid that having a carreer would be _difficult_ or entail any 
>> In general, too, it's simply a severe marital strain (someday,
>> I'd really like to see the divorce rates among scientists - I'd 
>> it's pretty darn high). Is this really legal or fair to force one to 
>> to prove their ultimate dedication to science by sacrificing 
>> and moving? 
>Legal? Fair? To have a lab in Maryland and expect someone who applies 
>a position with you to _move to Maryland_? I'm not sure what your point 
>No one is _forcing_ you to do anything, as far as I can tell...
>> I don't think so.   What can really be done to change this structure?
>Maybe the gov't can open national labs in every county in the nation so 
>who wants
>to do science can not have the inconvenience (yes, and sacrifice!) of 
>Look, if you wanted to be a sailor, you'd have to move to the sea, 
>If you want to be a scientist, you have to be near a lab which will 
>hire you.
>Simple, nyet?
>Susan Jane Hogarth
>"Luck is the residue of design." -- Freddy the Fish 
>"Personally, I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like 
>taught." -- Winston Churchill
Julia Frugoli
Dartmouth College

visiting grad student at
Texas A&M University
Department of Biological Sciences
College Station, TX 77843
FAX 409-847-8805

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