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More Post-doc questions...

Bharathi Jagadeesh bjag at cog.nimh.nih.gov
Tue Jul 9 16:48:51 EST 1996


Rachelle J. Bienstock (rachelle at picard.niehs.nih.gov) wrote:
: > In article <31E260A6.41C6 at picard.niehs.nih.gov>, "Rachelle J. Bienstock" <rachelle at picard.niehs.nih.gov> writes:
: > >On this same post doc thread, I want to say that post docs are
: > >very narrow and limited in many ways....For example many have
: > >age limitations- i.e. can't be over 30, and some have limitations
: > >on the numbers of years a person is past their PhD- like 5...
: > >suppose a person went into industry for a few years, and then wanted
: > >to go back to academia?  It makes it very difficult for them to enter

Michell Mylieff writes:
: > I've never heard of a 30 year old age limitation.  This would indeed be sad
: > news to many of our female grad students ranging in age from 37 to 50 years of
: > age!!  I've known many, many people starting postdocs after the age of 30 and
: > certainly almost everyone is beyond 30 by the end of their post doc years.

Rachelle J. Bienstock writes:
: Hey, everyone seemed to pick on me for mentioning the age limitations...
: Look at the number of awards for "Young Investigators"...many
: organizations award these to individuals who have done a body of
: significant work before age 35 or 40...Also what about "NSF Young
: Investigator Awards"...These age specifications do exist...

I have seen age restrictions on private fellowships,
and (this is the bigest category) on foreign
fellowships (for example, England). But I really think
that it would now be illegal for a government sponsored
fellowship to have a specific _age_ restriction.
Limiting the fellowship to a number of years out
of graduate school is definitely done (and I think legal).
Hmm I wonder if they could limit it to a number of years
after high school? That would have a clear age discriminatory
effect.

The laws regarding age discrimination have changed recently,
and so some stated restrictions might be invalid (or as a
previous poster stated, just an old restriction that they
haven't yet removed).

Regarding NSF awards, I found this in some NSF grant information:
(Caps are mine)

"In accordance with federal statutes and regulations and
NSF policies, no person on grounds of race, color, AGE,
sex, national origin, or disability shall be excluded
from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or
be subject to discrimination under any program or
activity receiving financial assistance from NSF"

It's interesting, though, that the organizations using
the age restrictions are probably doing it because they want
to help _young_ scientists, not to exclude older scientists, but
the people who are having the hardest time finding
money are not the young (post PhD post-doc) or the old
established scientist, but the one's in between. 

--
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag at ln.nimh.nih.gov

Lab of Neuropsychology
NIMH
Building 49, Room 1b80
Bethesda, Maryland 20892

(312) 496-5625 x270

: Investigator Awards"...These age specifications do exist...

--
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag at ln.nimh.nih.gov

Lab of Neuropsychology
NIMH
Building 49, Room 1b80
Bethesda, Maryland 20892

(312) 496-5625 x270

Rachelle J. Bienstock (rachelle at picard.niehs.nih.gov) wrote:
: mynlieffm at vms.csd.mu.edu wrote:
: > 
: > In article <31E260A6.41C6 at picard.niehs.nih.gov>, "Rachelle J. Bienstock" <rachelle at picard.niehs.nih.gov> writes:
: > >On this same post doc thread, I want to say that post docs are
: > >very narrow and limited in many ways....For example many have
: > >age limitations- i.e. can't be over 30, and some have limitations
: > >on the numbers of years a person is past their PhD- like 5...
: > >suppose a person went into industry for a few years, and then wanted
: > >to go back to academia?  It makes it very difficult for them to enter
: > 
: > I've never heard of a 30 year old age limitation.  This would indeed be sad
: > news to many of our female grad students ranging in age from 37 to 50 years of
: > age!!  I've known many, many people starting postdocs after the age of 30 and
: > certainly almost everyone is beyond 30 by the end of their post doc years.
: > 
: > Michelle Mynlieff

: Hey, everyone seemed to pick on me for mentioning the age limitations...
: Look at the number of awards for "Young Investigators"...many
: organizations award these to individuals who have done a body of
: significant work before age 35 or 40...Also what about "NSF Young
: Investigator Awards"...These age specifications do exist...

--
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag at ln.nimh.nih.gov

Lab of Neuropsychology
NIMH
Building 49, Room 1b80
Bethesda, Maryland 20892

(312) 496-5625 x270




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