In article <32mtcn$ga4 at darkstar.UCSC.EDU> quinones at orchid.UCSC.EDU (Cathy Quinones) writes:
>In article <32mf44$edo at tierra.santafe.ede> cheryl at wijiji.santafe.edu (C. A. Stewart) writes:
>>In article <32jhlv$cs7 at gap.cco.caltech.edu> troust at beat.ugcs.caltech.edu ("Tammy" L. Roust) writes:
>>>>And then there's the sexual harassment, which is rife at UCLA and in the UC
>>system in general. They won't care if you're married. They'll do it just
>>to watch you get upset. You gotta realize, academics can be really sadistic
>>motherfuckers, they'll berate you or grab your ass just to see if they can
>>make you cry---or cry "wolf."
>>I sort of woke up halfway through this post to see this comment. This is
>>such a random attack of beligerence! How did the post turn to sexual
>harassment? I thought it was about salaries in grad school and the such.
>As a student in the UC system, I can't say that I have ever had a male (or
>female, there are such creatures, remember?) grab me or act in any way
>that could be construed as harassment. The one case of harassment filed
>recently was against another student, and the faculty members are all
>very aware of the problem.
The UC system spent over 5 million dollars last year alone settling out
of court with victims of sexual harassment. Those were just the ones
that could PROVE their case and were willing to go as far as filing suit.
Settling out of court means that there's no publicity. That's the whole
point. You won't hear about a case unless you know the victim personally.
Furthermore, most cases are swept under the rug before they even get to
the point of filing suit. The University points out to the woman that
it will be her word against his, if she presses the case, they'll drag
every boyfriend she's ever broken up with they can find into court to
testify that she had had premarital sex with him, her mode of dress will
be used to say that she was "asking for it" (and you know how common it
is to wear shorts and t-shirts in California...). In short, they'll
intimidate her with the fact that she'll be basically treated no better
than a rape victim. She'll be the one on trial, not him. And she'll
be the one who'll never be able to get a job again, while he will get
off scott-free, and he'll continue to be employed, even promoted.
It's been said that UCSC is a "nicer" academic environment than most.
Perhaps your naivete is a product of that "nice" environment. I was
unaware of these practices coming out of Cornell, myself.
>I am almost starting to wonder if this poster is for real (and no offense
>if the poster IS a woman in science).
C. A. Stewart
1990 Ph.D. in Geophysics University of Chicago
1985 M.Sc. in Geophysics University of Chicago
1982 B.Sc. in Geology & Engineering Cornell University
Ph.D. Thesis: Nonlinear Dynamics of Thermal Convection in the Earth's Mantle
Awards and Honors
Bunting Science Scholars Fellowship Harvard University 1993
Directors' Funded Fellowship Los Alamos National Lab 1992
National Academy of Sciences Charles University 1992
East Europe Exchange Award Prague, Czechoslovakia
NSF-NATO Postdoctoral Fellowship Universite de Nice 1991
NASA Graduate Fellowship University of Chicago 1990
1993-94 Assistant Professor New York University Earth System Science
1992-93 Bunting Fellow Harvard University Earth & Planet. Sci.
1992 Postdoctoral Fellow Los Alamos Nat. Lab. Ctr. Nonlin. Studies
1992 Visiting Scientist Universitat Bayreuth Bayerisches Geoinstitut
1991 Research Associate Cornell University Dept. Geol. Sci.
1990-91 NSF-NATO Fellow Universite de Nice Inst. Non-Lineaire
1987-90 NASA Graduate Fellow University of Chicago Dept. Geophysics
1985-87 Systems Programmer Cornell University Cornell Theory Center
1982-85 Teaching Assistant University of Chicago Dept. Geophysics
1980-81 Geophysicist CONOCO, Inc. Petroleum Exploration
1979-81 Programmer Cornell University COCORP/COPSTOC
My publications are available on request.
>Judging from these posts, it
>would seem like women should (1) not trust men in academia, ever
I would say that that's a pretty reasonable reaction. Remember, it was
the male former director of the division of Earth and Space Sciences at
UCLA who knocked up his grad student then threw her out of school when she
decided to have the baby. She went on welfare. This was "Pre Anita" so
she just did what most women in science do when this happens --- keep
their mouth shut and try to find a job.
I myself have been grabbed, cornered in the elevator, and had the old
hand-on-the-knee-when-you're-applying-for-a-postdoc treatment. That's
just the PHYSICAL harassment. Then there's the proposition during the
performance review followed by threats and actual reprisals, the re-
spelling of my name in the faculty directory (with letters borrowed
from other parts of the directory) to read "SCREWS" rather than "Stewart,"
the constant use of double entendres and inuendo, not to mention
untrue rumors being spread about relationships with people who were
writing glowing recommendations about me.
>[but wait, wasn't the poster shanked by a FEMALE administrator?]
Yeah, who got every job she ever had as a concession to her husband
the Nobel Prizewinner and Famous Fraud David Baltimore. One of our
causes for action against her is in fact sexual harassment, for
failure to respond to several complaints of such. Having been the
kind of unethical self-serving political prostitute that had always
just gone along with that kind of thing, she just didn't see what
the problem was! She can tell THAT to the judge.
>(2) give up all hope that women will ever find any satisfaction in a career
>as scientists. I know the whole nine yards about how patriarchy is embedded
>in the system, how women are still getting paid less... but god, must the
>solution be sought after with such bitterness?!
Look, when it happens to YOU, you can at least know that it's not
YOUR FAULT, you didn't "ASK FOR IT," that it's WIDESPREAD and it's
because academics think they're somehow above the law, above ethics.
They'll do as much as they think they can get away with. And then
they'll sweep it under the rug. You'll be the one on trial if you
file a complaint. Guaranteed.
>And please don't tell me I have yet to see "the real world" or that I
>just don't know what the world was like or is like. I happen to count
>among close friends women who are in their 50s and who have been there
>and seen it all, and although they have criticisms about the system and have
>seen injustice first hand, they aren't taking such an adversarial,
>negativistic,hopeless, "kick them hard in the balls if you have 1/2 a
Look, sexual harassment is SO degrading, women in their 50's just don't
talk about it. And if they've EVER accepted a favor from someone who
was sweet on them, I'm sure they feel compromised enough themselves
not to blow the whistle on the whole practice. Furthermore, the kinds
of things we talk about being sexual harassment today are just accepted
by women that have survived that long. They just don't see what the
problem is. *They* say "get a thick skin," and, coyly, "don't pass
up ANY opportunities." I say, get lawyers, guns and money.
>I find this attitude disturbing.
I find THE FACTS disturbing. The UC system spent over 5 million settling
out of court last year just to shut up victims of sexual harassment, so women
like you can go on thinking that it doesn't really happen. Then when it
does happen to you, there's no lawyer who won last week's case in the papers
you can turn to. It's all swept under the rug.
>If I were to take these posts in the spirit
>they were written, I would feel be forced to go shoot all male faculty
>and while I am it I should also shoot my boyfriend, who has such aspirations.
Not all of them. I've actually run across oh, maybe half a dozen male
academics that were at least worth the paper they were printed on. Anyway,
what's the point of shooting such pathetic creatures that the only way they
can get laid is to threaten a subordinate with reprisals or offer them some
sad little bottle-washing job?
>Sexism cuts both ways...
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