On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Peter wrote:
> In article <FDCurp.Inw at world.std.com>, sphinx at world.std.com (SPHINX
> Technologies) wrote:
>> > As one with a certain level of knowledge of "combinatorics", or the
> > art of mathematically counting complex things (and often using this
> > to estimate probabilities or expected frequencies of occurrence), I
> > find it very difficult to imagine how all the necessary FUNCTIONAL
> > mutations to explain what you just described could have happened
> > by chance in anything LIKE the current age of the universe.
> Why is it difficult? Keep in mind that mutations that do not allow for
> "selection" to occur are unnoticed and irrelevant.
...bits of good text snipped...
Once a mutation in a protoonco-gene has occured, massive changes in the
chromosomal structure of the resulting cells occur: chromosome
duplications, deletions, muations and so on. All tumor cell lines have
abberant chromosome numbers. Bearing in mind that 1000s of genes are
located on every single chromosome, one can envision the large
shift in gene expression in such cells.
> And do not forget
> that the population of cells in the human is big (in the order of
> 10e8-10e9 cells). If one cell gets an advantage, then it will out grow
> its neighbors and increase the odds of another hit.
10e8 -10e9 is the number of cells in a very small tumor ! The number
of cells in a human body is 10e13, 10e14 if you include the bacteria in
the gut.
> > As you probably know, there is a small minority of researchers in
> > the cancer research community who assert that there IS a cancer
> > organism which they can isolate from any cancer cell and show you
> > if you will only look. (Dr. Virginia Livingston-Wheeler was one of
> > the better known.)
In MedLine there are exactly TWO hits with Livingston-Wheeler, and BOTH
smash her theory. Apparently she didn't publish herself in peer-reviewed
journals, the last 30 years ? If that is the case, I would be very
critical of her work.
> > Your description certainly sounds like the "trail" left by a
> > purposeful organism, not chance alone!
No, it doesn't: you are flawed in your interpretation of the previous
poster. In your case I have only one advice: back to the library ! Read
the papers by f.i. Lengauer, C. or Vogelstein, C.
cheerio,
clemens
------------------ Clemens Suter-Crazzolara, PhD --------------------
German Cancer Research Center DKFZ
Dept. Molecular Biophysics (H0200)
INF 280, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany
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